You know, the reason why the world girl, you girl is so popular is because of showers in the due to spell.
你知道，世界女孩、你女孩如此受欢迎的原因是因为在咒语中淋浴。
T if I go to a fancy restaurant, I’m going out for dinner afterwards to feed myself.
如果我去一家高档餐厅，之后我还会出去吃晚饭来填饱自己。
I remember him, him laughing and saying that he never realized, Oh, what a great marketing tool eternal diagnosis was and someone who can laugh about that is someone can to live their life.
我记得他，他笑着说，他从未意识到，哦，永恒的诊断是多么棒的营销工具，而能对此一笑置之的人，是能够好好生活的人。
Well, this is the rational reminder podcast, a weekly reality check on sensible investing and financial decision making from two Canadians who hosted by me, Benee’s Felix, chief investment officer, and Cameron PaaS more, chief executive officer at P. W. L. Capital.
好的，这是理性提醒播客，每周一次对明智投资和财务决策的现实检验，由两位加拿大人主持，我是本尼·菲利克斯，首席投资官，以及卡梅伦·帕斯莫尔，P.W.L.资本的首席执行官。
Welcome to episode for 22.
欢迎来到第422集。
And then this is a very special episode where we welcomed a past guest, billion Bernstein, Billy Bernstein.
然后这是一集非常特别的节目，我们欢迎了一位过去的嘉宾，亿万·伯恩斯坦，比利·伯恩斯坦。
Many listeners know of his work, but he joined us to talk about a book that another guest wrote just before he recently passed away.
许多听众都知道他的作品，但他加入我们是为了谈论另一位嘉宾在最近去世前不久写的一本书。
And that’S Jordan comments work called money and me.
那就是乔丹·克莱门茨的作品，名为《金钱与我》。
And there’s a neat story there.
这里有一个很棒的故事。
We’re early on in the podcast.
我们在播客的早期。
This is eight years ago, pretty much now.
这差不多是八年前了。
Now then we were kind of come up with idea of having gas on, and we both knew about Jonathan.
那时我们想出了邀请嘉宾上节目的主意，我们俩都知道乔纳森。
So we reached out to him use in the New York City area, and we asked you, you going to join us?
所以我们联系了在纽约地区的他，我们问他，你愿意加入我们吗？
We I think we talk to with us on a recent flight.
我想我们是在最近一次飞行中和他谈的。
We logged equipment in New York City, of course, with with the new uri rattles and went to New York City with our equipment and interviewed berry and and and Johnson said, if you want to vary the office or meet you there, loved it, have an interview with you guys.
我们当然带着设备去了纽约市，带着新设备，带着我们的设备去了纽约市，采访了贝瑞，然后约翰逊说，如果你想去办公室或者在那里见你，很喜欢，想和你们做一次采访。
So he met us after we saw berry, I interviewed China and comments in the rattles office in midtown Manhattan.
所以在我们见过贝瑞之后，他见了我们，我在曼哈顿中城的拉特尔斯办公室采访了乔纳森·克莱门茨。
And he was very kind, very gracious.
他非常友善，非常亲切。
So happy to see us.
很高兴见到我们。
And it was a fabulous interview.
那是一次非常棒的采访。
We were very early on in the in the cast of five was 55.
我们在播客的非常早期，第五集还是第五十五集。
Yes, he has to make it seven years ago.
是的，那应该是七年前了。
Regardless, it was a great interview when the real tree to have Bill Joy is to talk about one of the memory in the legacy of Jonathan, which is highlight in this book, money in me how to make your finance work harder for you and your family.
无论如何，那是一次很棒的采访，真正有幸请到比尔·乔伊来谈论乔纳森的遗产之一，这本书中突出体现了这一点，《金钱与我：如何让你的财务为你和你的家人更努力地工作》。
Yeah.
是的。
And Johnson is his.
而约翰逊是他的。
He spent his, his whole professional life as a financial writer.
他的整个职业生涯都是作为一名金融作家度过的。
He was at the wall Street Journal for 20 years.
他在《华尔街日报》工作了20年。
Spent six years at city group, where he was a director, financial education for their wealth management arm, and then he ran to his own blog website called humble, humble dollar from 2000, thousand and 16 until a few months before he passed away.
在花旗集团工作了六年，担任其财富管理部门金融教育总监，然后从2016年开始经营自己的博客网站，名为“谦卑美元”，直到他去世前几个月。
And he he wrote about his diagnosis and this terminal diagnoses on the blog, and was a perfect it on life and dying and mean pretty powerful stuff.
他在博客上写下了自己的诊断和绝症诊断，对生命和死亡进行了完美的思考，内容相当有力。
He was so open about it as well, and shared and spit used on many interviews I would listen to up to his death, or it was just so Frank about it and wanted have an impact on two ru.
他对此也非常坦诚，在我听到的许多采访中分享并坦率表达，直到他去世，他就是如此直言不讳，希望对他人产生影响。
He was and呃，我觉得很所以he published his book post timeously and and and bill Bernstein in whois，a whole new Johnson than for years.
他……呃，我觉得很……所以他在去世后出版了这本书，而比尔·伯恩斯坦，他认识乔纳森很多年了。
And he tells more stories about their their relationship he, bill stepped in to to do whenever you like this on Johnson behalf because he was so familiar with his writing and and bill such a good speaker and a bill who’s so he was on an episode 108 again, pretty early on of the podcast.
他讲述了更多关于他们关系的故事，比尔代表约翰逊出面做这件事，因为他非常熟悉他的写作，而且比尔是一位出色的演讲者，比尔……他上过第108集，也是播客的早期。
But he’s if people don’t know who he is and listeners likely do, but anyone who doesn’t, he’s a neurologist but also the co founder of efficient frontier advise, which is an an invest management firm that approaches investments, you know I would say very similar PW, L, using low cost look as as index funds and stuff like that to build portfolios.
但如果有人不知道他是谁，听众们很可能知道，但任何不知道的人，他是一位神经科医生，同时也是高效前沿顾问公司的联合创始人，这是一家投资管理公司，其投资方式，我会说与P.W.L.非常相似，使用低成本指数基金之类的东西来构建投资组合。
He’s also read a tuna books on finance, financial decision making, economic history and other topics.
他还阅读了大量关于金融、财务决策、经济史和其他主题的书籍。
He’s got some good peer reviewed papers out there as well.
他还有一些不错的同行评审论文。
Visit just up, brilliant, brilliant guy.
简直太出色了，才华横溢的人。
Some of the best sort of practical writing on how do you take what we know from academic finance and make it useful to individuals making household financial decisions come from from from bills writing.
一些关于如何将学术金融知识转化为对家庭财务决策有用的实用写作，最好的作品来自比尔的笔下。
I think he’s one of the pioneers and sort of taking academic literature and make it practically, practically useful in a way that’s not too dumped down but is still accessible anyway.
我认为他是将学术文献转化为实际有用的先驱之一，这种方式不会过于简化，但仍然易于理解。
Bees from the scientific medical background, that is this foundation.
来自科学医学背景，这就是基础。
I mean, his books were, you know, big party.
我的意思是，他的书，你知道，影响很大。
It means me to make the shift that I did already last years or so ago Yeah.
这让我在几年前就做出了转变，是的。
So the science entity background, for sure, but it is a ability to communicate and make things practically relevant to supposed to abstract is it is unusual.
所以科学背景当然是，但那种沟通能力，让事情实际相关而不是抽象，这很不寻常。
It’s special.
这很特别。
So he’s a, anyway, not fantastic to have him on talking.
所以他，总之，能请他来谈谈真是太好了。
What Jonathan had to say in is a in his final book.
乔纳森在他最后一本书中想说的话。
目前还可以。
目前还可以。
Okay, shall we get to interview?
好的，我们开始采访吧？
Yep, let’s go ahead or interview with bill burnt in on behalf of Johnson climate.
是的，让我们开始对比尔·伯恩斯坦的采访，代表约翰逊·克莱门茨。
Girl Bernstein, to welcome back to the raft and reminder podcast, we had to be here very excited to be talking to you about John and climate tes who who has unfortunately passed away.
伯恩斯坦女士，欢迎回到理性提醒播客，我们非常高兴能在这里与您谈论约翰·克莱门茨，他不幸已经去世。
We’re talking to you about a book but he wrote before he passed away and and you’ve been a gratious enough to to speak on his behalf about his writing, which is, I think, an incredible thing for you to do in his memory.
我们和您谈论他去世前写的一本书，您非常慷慨地代表他谈论他的作品，我认为这是您为纪念他所做的一件了不起的事。
嗯嗯，so to kick off build, why does success often contain the seeds of its own destruction?
嗯嗯，那么开始吧，比尔，为什么成功往往包含自身毁灭的种子？
He, well, if you’re talking about success at the corporate level, obviously a great success in a very high profitability and profit margin attracts competition.
他，嗯，如果你说的是企业层面的成功，显然非常高的盈利能力和利润率会吸引竞争。
So that’s a number one.
这是第一点。
Number two, organizations that are successful grow to be large and they become on whether the and Scorsese and difficult to manage, they develop ubs.
第二，成功的组织会变得庞大，变得臃肿且难以管理，他们会产生官僚习气。
You know they they think that they can do no wrong.
你知道，他们认为自己不会犯错。
And there is another factor which people don’t think about enough, I think, which is a lot of success has to do with work.
还有另一个因素，我认为人们考虑得不够，那就是很多成功与运气有关。
You know a lot of corporations wind up up in the right place at the right time, and then they’re never that lucky again.
你知道，很多公司恰好在正确的时间出现在正确的地点，然后他们再也没有那么幸运了。
I think that Facebook matter is a classic example of, the soccer bd got very lucky that Harvard, setting up his is his social media app.
我认为Facebook就是一个典型的例子，扎克伯格非常幸运，在哈佛建立了他的社交媒体应用。
There he was the right place at the right time he took off.
他在正确的时间出现在正确的地点，然后一飞冲天。
He was able to to monitor ze.
他能够将其货币化。
Quite successful in terms of advertizing revenue you know matter is still a cash gal, but it’s obvious that he’s lost his touch.
在广告收入方面相当成功，你知道Meta仍然是现金牛，但很明显他已经失去了感觉。
You know the metaphor that to work out so well and you know the odds that he’s going to succeeded AI or they’re not that that in not out either.
你知道元宇宙并没有那么成功，而且你知道他在人工智能上成功的几率也不大。
What constraints does our ability to help future generations face?
我们帮助后代的能力面临哪些限制？
Well, you know, I think what you’re asking is the ability of individuals to endow our, their, their ears.
嗯，你知道，我想你问的是个人为他们的继承人提供资助的能力。
Yes, I think that’s what your dog y band the is and how how can establish sh how can can you know the listeners established or have a family, a family dynasty, their kids, the grandkids education, make sure are successful and the answer is something that not only John’s written about it, IHI wrote about as well with rob or not in William woo.
是的，我想这就是你的意思，以及如何建立，听众们如何建立一个家族王朝，确保他们的孩子、孙辈的教育成功，答案是，不仅约翰写过，我也和罗布·阿诺特在威廉·伍中写过。
And it’s fortunately impossible to do for any number of reasons to establish that sort of dynastic wealth and power.
不幸的是，由于多种原因，建立那种世袭财富和权力是不可能的。
First of all, people read like rabbits.
首先，人们像兔子一样繁殖。
Okay?
好吗？
You have to to you double the population of your ears every generation.
每一代你的继承人数量都会翻倍。
So you’re dividing by two once every generation and then your ears tend not to be is ambitious and is hungry as you are.
所以你每一代都在除以二，而且你的继承人往往不像你那样有雄心、有饥饿感。
They tend not to be as good at managing money as you are.
他们往往不像你那样擅长管理金钱。
They have to pay taxes.
他们必须纳税。
They climb the hidden c tmt and their material once exploded.
他们面临隐性成本，物质欲望一旦爆发。
They fight with each other, over inheritance.
他们为继承权互相争斗。
And so history is full of cases of supposed dynastic wealth, that burned up very quickly.
因此，历史上充满了所谓世袭财富迅速耗尽的案例。
H for example, there was a for union on the the the real t eh 60 th, not 1 million antivenom.
例如，有一个关于……的财富，第60个，不是100万抗蛇毒血清。
Oh.
哦。
And you know there are all cases where families have managed to keep their wealth and tack.
你知道，也有一些家族设法保住了财富。
I mean, I happen to be personally acquainted someone who is the air to a large manufacturing fortune.
我的意思是，我碰巧认识一个人，他是一大笔制造业财富的继承人。
And I believe was the fourth in his line.
我相信他是家族中的第四代。
He was deemed not a lender of the business.
他被认为不适合领导该企业。
And by the way, he has to love and and, okay, so you know you can see what that headed.
顺便说一句，他不得不……好的，所以你可以看到那会走向何方。
This is a great book about the venture bill, wealth dynasty and how how it ended up, where where it is just a pretty interesting read.
这是一本关于范德比尔特财富王朝以及它如何结局的好书，读起来相当有趣。
Yeah it burned up very quickly because there you know there was was direct spend rift air that that really did a number on that particular, inheritance but the story, the story is the same, throughout all all all inherits itself.
是的，它很快就耗尽了，因为有一个挥霍无度的继承人，确实对那笔遗产造成了很大损害，但故事在所有继承中都是一样的。
If you think you’re going to be endorsing your great, great grandchildren with wealth and privilege, guess again Yeah Yeah so so interesting.
如果你认为你能让你的曾曾孙辈拥有财富和特权，那再猜猜吧，是的，是的，太有趣了。
Think about the estate planning implications of that reality.
想想这一现实对遗产规划的影响。
Why why do people spend as they do?
为什么人们会那样花钱？
Well, you know the question is, is what’s the most effective kind of spending?
嗯，你知道，问题在于什么是最有效的消费方式？
And I tend to think of a spending hierarchy the same way that I think of Nashua Pyne.
我倾向于像思考马斯洛需求层次那样思考消费层次。
Okay.
好的。
And it’s not really a question of hierarchy of needs.
这其实不是需求层次的问题。
It’s a question of high arch of of adaptations.
而是适应层次的问题。
So what are we adapt to the fastest in terms of our material, terms of our consumption?
那么，在物质和消费方面，我们适应得最快的是什么？
What’s material consumption?
什么是物质消费？
Okay.
好的。
And get used to driving a Beamer or flying first class.
习惯开宝马或坐头等舱。
And the thrill very quickly fade.
那种兴奋感很快就会消退。
We adapt to the fastest of material purchase.
我们对物质购买的适应最快。
Next up is something that people call the talk.
接下来是人们所说的体验。
A lot of these days, which is experiences, we don’t adapt quite as quickly to experiences, but we still we certainly do you know we get used to the nice hotel, we get get to to to the travel.
如今很多人谈论体验，我们对体验的适应没有那么快，但我们仍然会适应，你知道，我们会习惯好酒店，习惯旅行。
We get to spending a lot of time with with family.
我们会花很多时间和家人在一起。
The third thing, the third step up from that, which we adapt to much more slowly, is autonomy.
第三件事，比那更高一级，我们适应得更慢的，是自主性。
Oh, I think this is the pocket and I think I can cultural of money and if that is one of the best purchases and that is is autonomy and there is there is still another level even above and which is something Jonathan wrote in one of the columns or one of the chapters in the book, which and is something we don’t think about.
哦，我认为这是关键，我认为金钱文化中最好的购买之一就是自主性，而且还有一个更高的层次，这是乔纳森在书中某一专栏或某一章中写到的，这是我们没有考虑到的。
We think about the utility of purchases, but what we don’t think about is the negative utility of money.
我们考虑购买的效用，但我们没有考虑金钱的负效用。
What do I mean by that?
我这么说是什么意思？
I mean, worrying about money.
我的意思是，为钱担忧。
When you ask people, in particularly retirees, what they worry about.
当你问人们，尤其是退休人员，他们担心什么。
Number one is their health, but then the next five or six items all boiled down to not having enough money to pay fer rent, groceries, pain for medical expenses, you for the travel, they want to do all that sort of thing.
第一是健康，但接下来的五六项都归结为没有足够的钱来支付房租、 groceries、医疗费用、他们想做的旅行等等。
And so the biggest diuck late of money is worrying about money.
所以金钱最大的负效用就是为钱担忧。
And the nice thing about a about having a lot of money, and probably the best, best thing about